Before Martin Luther King Jr., it was legal to discriminate on the basis of skin color. But hey, all Blacks had to do was move north or 'back to Africa'.
Before suffrage, it was legal to discriminate against women on the basis of gender. But hey, women could just encourage their husbands to vote the way that they would like.
It is currently legal to discriminate against an individual based on his or her place of birth. But hey, immigrants might be able to come legally if they jump through the right hoops and are willing to wait indefinitely for permission - otherwise, they can just stay in their impoverished home communities.
None of the situations listed above are just.
-------------------------------------------------
It also really bothers me when we deport people who were brought to the United States as children, have grown up loving America, often not even knowing that they are considered illegal aliens, have become educated here, and have committed no crime other than staying in the country that has raised them.
There is currently a case pending for Tope Awe, a graduate student at the University of Wisconsin. Below is brief summary from here:
Tope Awe, a third-year graduate student in the UW School of Pharmacy,was arrested last week and risks deportation to Nigeria.
What crime did she commit? She stayed in the United States with her family since she was three and grew up American.
...
Tope Awe is as American as any American citizen kid born and brought up here. She is a student leader and an avid contributor to the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Whether being the co-chair of the African Student Association 2006-2007 school year, the co-president Multicultural Affairs Program in Pharmacy 2006-2007, or working for the Diversity Program in University Housing as the Multicultural Liaison she has been avid and insightful resource on this campus.
Even if you believe that Tope should be sent to Nigeria--a country that she does not know and does not consider her home--she should not be in jail or detention because she has commited no crime. Tope should be allowed to at least finish her education.
Edit - This blog post has been updated to add that Tope is no longer in detention. The battle is not over because this is just a temporary resolution. However, this demonstrates that gathering petitions and protesting ICE detentions of students does make a difference when it comes to some immigration judges so to all those that are fighting deportation, keep up the fight and let us know how to assist in your cause.
...
I came across this post over at Yahoo!:
About illegal immigrants and US army?
I have a friend and his shy to do this so im doing it for him. His 18 almost 19 the first time he came to US was in 1997 he was 8 i guess and he came back and forth a couple of times but he came as a visitor with a passport and a visa and he stayed here longer than he could now its his 3rd time here and his been here more than 5 years and he also finished middle school here and its finishing high school this year, he wanted to be legalized but he doesn't know if he can and also he wanted to join US army but he doesn't know if he can either.. His family own a house here and all his family work on US.
Ps: if anybody have any idea that can help we`ll be thankful
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
He's going to have to get some sort of visa before the Army will take him. I'm not a professional on immigration, but I would assume that a workers visa would be the easiest to get. A recruiter might even be able to help him with paperwork and filing. That doesn't mean the recruiter will do it for him, or that he'll be able to pull strings and get it faster. It just means that he'll point your friend in the right direction.
Once he gets a Visa, then he can enlist and work towards full citizenship. Once in the military, immigrants can work towards full citizenship faster than civilians.
And other commenters need to chill. Just because he's an illegal immigrant doesn't mean he's a criminal. The poor kid is trying to prove to us that he wants to be here, and wants to be an American, by joining our military and risking his life in our war. He's wants to do what many of our peers and children are too cowardly to do. I say, let him enlist.
Fortunately, this response is fairly well balanced, but some of the other comments on the post are as follows:
First he is not shy...he is afraid of ICE !!!!
First talk to a recruiter...
Then he will have to return to his own Country
before he can obtain a GREEN CARD..
(Probably a Provisional 2 year Card)
After Serving 2 Years in the Armed Services
he is eligible to apply for Automatic US Citizenship...
At this point in time...you are aidding and abetting
a Crime !!!!
* 2 months ago
Source(s):
Retired Marine !!!!
And another:
he cant join the military without a green card, tell your friend that he is taking jobs from legal/citizens by willing to join the army.
And another:
Yes. Send his illegal @$$ back and have him come here legally.
You are aiding and abetting a criminal, and should go to jail.
By the way, this is EXACTLY how my in-laws feel. They came here legally 40 years ago and are now citizens.
I think that people who feel that illegal immigrants are criminals should take a moment to remember the last time that they bought something online without reporting the sales tax owed on their tax forms, jay-walked, exceeded the legal speed limit or blood-alcohol level while driving, tossed a cigarette out the window, threw away a battery in the normal trash or otherwise broke the law. How hypocritical! Illegal immigrants are illegal for arbitrary reasons that have nothing to do with any sort of violence or danger to society. (And don't tell me that illegal immigrants are violent offenders! Sure, some of them are, but so are many natural born Americans.)
Humans are humans and it is wrong to discriminate against them, just because they happen to have been born on the wrong side of an arbitrary line!
23 comments:
Actually, it's gone the other way with immigration- it used to be a lot easier to become an American. One of the problems that the founding fathers had with the crown, in fact, was that they were preventing people from immigrating!
I definitely am sick of listening to the bigots complain about "illegals" though, so I hope it gets better.
Hi Rufus,
Thanks for stopping by!
It's kinda funny when you think about it - many people who immigrated to America way back when didn't have any regulations!
Will anarchy become a part of our culture?
The single most disastrous piece of legislation passed in the history of the U.S. was the 1986 amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens. Thanks to that we now have 20 million illegals demanding another amnesty. Let’s not get stuck on stupid and make the same mistake again. The only effective program in dealing with illegal immigration is enforcement, which we have used only sparingly. It’s far beyond time that we get serious and implement consistent enforcement nationwide.
Build the fence, get it done. Enforce our current immigration laws without exception. Up to this point we have allowed the illegal aliens, their facilitators and a do nothing Congress fracture our society into two groups: citizens who must obey the laws of our country and illegal aliens who don’t. That must stop unless we wish to make anarchy a part of American culture.
Illegal Immigration IS A CRIME:
8 U.S.C. 1325 = illegal entry.
" (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both."
The fact of the matter is that not only are illegal aliens law-breaking criminals by virtue of their illegal entry or intentional visa overstays, most are also liars & cheaters (filing fraudulent immigration applications including asylum, immigrant petitions and adjustments of status from non-immigrant visas; fabricating/obtaining for use fraudulent documents) and thieves (theft of taxpayer funded services meant for citizens; stealing identities to hold jobs illegally and operate here).
Zeezil,
Citing an unjust law is not enough to make me follow it. Had I been around when it was the law to return human beings to slavery, I would have broken that law. I refuse to compromise on human rights and morals, just because an unjust law is on the books.
Now, if said illegal immigrant commits a violent crime, then I would support deportation, but if the only crime is coming to America without the proper documentation, then I can't see infringing on their right to the pursuit of happiness mentioned in the Declaration of Independence.
I will grant you, though, that illegal immigration could be stopped by enforcement of the laws. Rather than spending the time rounding up the illegals, though, I would put resources into cracking down on those who entice them to come to this country with illegal employment. Businesses profit from their being here. If an employer is caught with illegal employees, the employer only gets a slap on the wrist and the immigrants are the ones severely punished. This just means that the employer is going to turn around and hire another batch of illegal immigrants to further exploit. If there were no jobs, the immigrants wouldn't come. However, as long as we have the hypocrisy of turning a blind eye to the employers who entice them, no amount of fence building or raids will stop them from coming.
Karen:
Currently, there are 193 recognized countries in the world. All 193 of those countries have established immigration policies. All 193 of those countries view illegal entry into their country as a crime. Therefore, all 193 countries take the stance that illegal immigration is a violation of their national sovereignty and is not conducive to their well being. Nor is to be tolerated and is punished by incarceration and/or fines and deportation. The U.S. is one of those 193 countries. Should we not agree with the entire rest of the world that illegal immigration is a crime?
Furthermore, the Declaration of Independence applied to AMERICA and Americans and the situation they were facing with Britain, not Mexicans, Latin Americans, Europeans, etc.
Furthermore, Civil Rights pertain ONLY to citizens. The Merriam-Webster online Dictionary defines civil-rights as: “The nonpolitical rights of a citizen; especially: the rights of personal liberty guaranteed to U.S. citizens by the 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution and by acts of Congress.” If one is not a citizen of the country, civil rights do not apply.
I am appalled by apologists and illegal immigration advocates who think it is perfectly acceptable for us to accommodate 20 million people who have no business or right to be in our country.
America was built with native born citizens and LEGAL immigrants. The millions of illegals here are costing the American taxpayer over $100 billion every year on health care and other services including education, law enforcement, welfare and housing. It is in the best interest of America, her citizens and LEGAL immigrants to reject illegal immigration and force the illegals to depart.
Honoring America’s values don’t include embracing illegal immigration, in fact, honoring America’s values involves honoring the rule of law. We have allowed ourselves to become a fractured society, with citizens who have to obey the law and illegal aliens who don’t. Anyone with even a modicum of logic can see that this is anarchy.
I embrace legal immigration as we have the right and duty as a sovereign nation to decide whom we let in and whom we keep out and illegal immigration voids both of those precepts.
Our Founding Father’s Outlook on Immigration
Our founding fathers were generally wary of immigration, and many of them were concerned about the consequences for the U.S. if levels were not controlled and limited.
Benjamin Franklin was concerned about mass influx of immigrants from middle European countries and that they showed little desire to adopt our language and customs. He felt that immigrants of sufficient number and concentration would radically change the cultural landscape in ways that the native population might not want.
Thomas Jefferson was concerned with immigrants from countries whose heads of state were monarchs and dictators. He felt that a large influx of immigrants from places without any experience with our kind of government and society could only introduce confusion and discord. Jefferson felt that it was better to wait patiently for the natural increase of the American population rather than achieve such increase by mass immigration and that the country would, as a result, be more peaceable and more durable.
Alexander Hamilton felt that any generous immigration policy has its limits if the welfare of the country is to be protected. He felt the safety of a republic depended “essentially on the energy of a common national sentiment; on a uniformity of principles and habits; on the exemption of the citizens from foreign bias, and prejudice; and on that love of country which will almost invariably found to be closely connected with birth, education, and family.” For Hamilton, immigration policy was a matter of prudence and good sense, not a moral imperative.
George Washington contended that the United States had no real reason to encourage immigration. He expressed a concerned observation that immigrants “retain the language, habits and principles (good or bad) that they bring with them.”
Rufus King, Constitutional Convention delegate from Massachusetts, was concerned about the character of the immigrants whom America might attract. He wrote in a 1798 letter, “it was the practice of the Emigrants from Scotland to bring with them Certificates from the religious Societies to which they belonged, of their honesty, sobriety, and generally of their good Character! Why should we not require some such Documents from all Emigrants, and it would be well to add to the Testimonial that the person to whom it was granted was not expelled from his Country and had not been convicted of any crime.” King wondered, “If from the emigrations of past time we have suffered inconvenience and our true national character has been disfigured, what are we to expect from the Emigrants of the present Day?”
John Jay, who would become the first chief justice of the United States, celebrated the fact that for all its “diversity”, the United States consisted essentially of people whose religious and cultural traits were broadly similar and compatible, rather than widely divergent and a potential threat to social comity.
At the Constitutional Convention, New York’s Gouverneur Morris noted that the privileges that immigrants enjoyed in the U.S. were considerably greater than in the rest of the world, but he concluded by stating that “every Society from a great Nation down to a Club has the right of declaring the conditions on which new members should be admitted.”
In summary, our founding fathers and leaders of the government from its earliest days fully supported our new republic’s right to control immigration and determine exclusionary criteria for citizenship. They would have opposed the essentially unrestrictive mass immigration numbers that we are seeing today and would have abhorred the million plus unvetted illegal immigrants coming in each year.
Zeezil, I think we have a fundamental difference of opinion. I put human concerns above legal ones. Although laws are there for the benefit of society, sometimes laws are made that are unnecessary or unjust. I understand that many people feel proprietary about national resources. However, I believe that we should legally admit anyone willing to work, rather than forcing them to choose between staying in inhumane conditions or having to enter the country illegally.
It's interesting that you refer to the the Declaration of Independence and "Americans". At that time, "Americans" were nothing more than the sum off all of the mixed peoples who had previously come to America, many of whom were convicts and smugglers. I'm not buying it that the original Americans were any better than more recent immigrants, be they legal or illegal.
America has always been multilingual and multicultural, though the cultures of western Europe were always valued higher than the other cultures (of say the Native Americans and the African Americans).
Although it is a myth that German almost became the official language of the United States, it is true that there were large numbers of German speakers. Also, it is important to remember that the "original" European settlers of New York were Dutch. There were also French and Spanish settlers. All these groups were present before the United States was founded as a nation. It is an incorrect reading of history to assume that America was ever a monolithic English language/heritage nation. It was very common to have city quarters that were essentially "Little Italy", "Little Berlin", etc. in which it was neither required nor expected that the American born population would speak English.
Interestingly enough, although there are still some communities that foster non-English languages within the United States, current immigrants are never monolingual in the non-English language past the second and at lastest third generation. They recognize the value of learning English. There will always be monolingual minority language speakers, but the vast majority of them are people who came to this country as adults and were unable to learn English, either through lack of ability due to age or lack of access to classes. (There is a huge waiting list for most English as a Second Language classes.)
"An unjust law is no law at all."
-St. Augustine of Hippo
November 13, 354 – August 28, 430
I like how Karen advocates that we "pick and choose" which laws one should follow in her promotion of illegal immigration.
Which ones will you choose not to follow, today, Karen? Of course, you'll never catch up to the host of laws that illegal aliens don't abide by.
And, by the way, what exactly is inhumane about our immigration policy and the law that requires proper (and legal) entry into our country?
Well, I like the set of rights spelled out in the Declaration of Independence: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Dictating in which country someone is allowed or not allowed to live goes against liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I think that Americans need to consider just how lucky they are to be allowed free travel to virtually everywhere in the world. We take that forgranted. Just imagine the outcry if we were submitted to the same regulation that we demand of others!
Karen:
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness was never about enabling the invasion of America by 20 million plus illegal aliens. So let's dispel that ridiculous thought.
Your comment about Americans traveling to other countries makes no sense because when American citizens travel to foreign lands they do so legally by having a U.S. passport along with a legally issued VISA (by the foreign country) that spells out the conditions and length of their visit. So, I have no idea where your going with your comment but it seems to be used in some sort of context of equality with illegal immigration that makes no sense.
It is infinitely easier for an American to travel to Mexico, be it as a tourist or as a new permanent resident, than it is for a Mexican to travel to America. This holds true for many other countries around the world. While legal travel and immigration are real possibilities for Americans, it is an unfulfillable dream for large numbers of people around the world.
Karen,
Id like to join this discussion, but its sort of tough, as there are so many issues to address, I don't know where to start.
In particular, zeezil points out that some of the founding fathers made statements that could be read as being against having immigrants who were not of English descent.
In fact, most of the founders are on record as bing distrustful of the common people no matter what their origin or extraction. That they occasionally made these statements in referance to foreigners specifically is not surprising...but they were no more flattering nor unflattering of their judgements toward native-born Americans.
They had some grand ideas about the "American National Character", but observed generally that that national character was due to the people who were attracted to life in America, not specifically nation of origin.
However, there are numerous statements in the positive about people from all over the world and their ability to contribute to America. One that comes off the top of the head is Washington's assertion that he doesn't care who builders are that are hired for the public buildings...as long as they are good workmen (doesn't care about their religion, national origin, race, etc)
The balance of the writings of the founders were accepting of foreigners and immigrants, and affirming of their desire to contribute.
You can dig up a few is isolated quotes you want to contradict that, but in the volumes and volumes of writings by the founders, the balance is overwhelmingly favorable of immigration.
I'd also like to point out that ending immigration is a two-edged sword.
The biggest barrier to ending immigration is not immigrants themselve, nor is it bleeding-heart liberals...
Its the fact that a large portion of the economy is based on cheap labor, as well as taxes paid by illegal immigrants who will never be able to collect anywhere near the benefits they paid for.
We benefit from illegals too much for the corporate interests to allow any real movement on the issue.
Make them legal, and the benefit evaporates (they wont be able to be intimidated into working cheap and keeping quiet about employer abuses)...but if you actually did away with them the economy would take a tremendous hit.
It is better for the economic powers to keep them in limbo where they are better off than at home, but always insecure in their future so they can be controlled.
Sad.
Just as we (the people) feel today, Teresa, the founding fathers were in favor of immigration that was controlled, orderly and consisted of people of good character who contributed needed skills to our new republic.
Illegal immigration, as we now experience it, does none of that.
I am in favor of legal immigration. I am even in favor of a guest worker program to fill jobs if it is truly proven that there are not American citizens or legal immigrants available to fill them. Guest worker programs, though are temporary worker programs that are designed to benefit both the worker and host nation. They are not pathways to citizenship nor designed to allow worker overstays. I agree that many Mexicans are good hard working people with family values. I agree I would find it hard to live in a corrupt country that does not support its people. I will tell you though if I did live in another country I would certainly learn the language knowing that it would be the best way to function. It is illegal immigration that is endangering our country because there is no way to regulate the numbers that come here and adequately inspect arrivals for criminal background, diseases and a means of support so as to not be a burden to taxpayers. Thus we are unable to assimilate the new arrivals adequately so they can succeed and taxpayers can be unburdened by their costs. Instead, they set themselves up for failure and are essentially doomed to stay in an underclass exploited by business that hurts both the illegals and American citizens due to job loss and wage depression.
I oppose this exploited indentured servitude type labor underclass that has developed because of illegal immigration. I oppose the fact that legal immigrants have a much more difficult time getting good paying jobs and experiencing the American dream because they have to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs and wages. I oppose seeing poor Latin Americans exploited by unscrupulous employers that pay them short dollars under the table. These employers should prosecuted for violations of labor law and the 1986 IRCA. Never should they be eligible for a business license anywhere in the United States again.
I am opposed to Mexico exporting their poor instead of dealing with them there because of their massive corruption that they will not address. I am opposed to groups like MEChA and La Raza (The Race) that openly advocate creating an apartheid style Hispanic only nation of Aztlan in what is the American South West. I am opposed to Hispanic separatist racist groups including La Raza, MEChA, LULAC, MALDEF, CHIRLA, ACORN, La Voz de Atzlan, Zapatista Army of National Liberation and Mexicanos Sin Fronteras (Mexicans Without Borders).
I am opposed to government forced multiculturalism in the name of political correctness because it is unity that made this country great, not diversity and separatism. Diversity is only acceptable if it celebrates one’s culture but not at the expense of another and celebrates overall unity, not fragmentation and cultural dominance, as many hispanic supremacy groups do.
Diversity without unity is Balkanization, which has been shown to segment society causing conflicts and wars. Unity means that we are a diverse people working in freedom for a common goal of a strong united nation, the pursuit of happiness and a better life for all. Once we get a grip on our immigration process and end illegal immigration, we can strive to solve all the problems caused by it.
Zeezil,
I definitely agree with you here: "These employers should [be] prosecuted for violations of labor law and the 1986 IRCA."
I think that this would be a good first step to ending illegal immigration. Another step would be a guest worker programs as you've mentioned. I would also advocate for a third measure, though, to make it easier for families that wish to do so to immigrate into the United States legally and allow their children to be raised as productive Americans.
As Teresa mentioned, we are dependent on the cheap labor. Rather than seducing the foreigners into an illegal situation, I would argue for making it easier for there to be a legal situation, regulated situation that would fill the needs of business and individual workers.
I'm not really sure what to do about the illegal immigrants already here. If we were to institute some sort of plausible way to allow them to be here legally, it might be advisable to send a number of them back to their countries to have them apply for permits of some sort (though I chafe at the idea of having to have permission to travel somewhere, I can see how they are probably necessary in today's world). This might work for single individuals or even married couples, but probably would not be advisable for families with children to be made to move out and then back again, because this would disrupt the child's education. I think that if we have children here, especially those born here (and thus American citizens), but also those who have lived most of their lives here, the best thing that we can do is to socialize them according to the American system so as to avoid having another generation of vulnerable individuals.
I think that there really does need to be a way to grant legal status to hard-working individuals, who have been contributing to society here, whose only crime has been illegal entry into this country (and the acquisition of accompanying documentation).
I can also understand that there is a problem with blanket amnesty, because it does encourage more people to break the rules. What we need to do is to find a humane way of solving the problem without falling into the trap of Javert in Les Misérables, who put law before justice.
Truth be told Mexico is not a poor country (it currently is in the top tier of world economies and by 2050 will be the world's fifth-largest economy), it's a corrupt country!
There's a difference. Mexicans do not live in horrible poverty. People in Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Malaysia and Vietnam, to name just a few live in horrible poverty. If our goal were to offer an opportunity for a better life to people living in abject poverty, Mexico would not even be on the list of countries we would look at.
Le'ts consider people from other countries who have not fleeced the taxpayers of the US. Countries whose leaders have not meddled in our immigration affairs with the intention of subverting our legal immigration system. Slam the door shut on Mexico and lock it. The world is awash in unskilled labor. Let's lend a hand to people who will respect our laws and not burn our flag in the streets nor advocate for the mythical nation of Atzlan. People who are actually interested in assimilating into our culture and promoting cohesiveness, not diviseness, in our nation.
Zeezil,
Well, as you said, it's the Mexican government that's poor. I still can't countenance turning our collective back on an entire people for the fault of its corrupt government. I believe in being the good Samaritan to individuals in need. It's when we dehumanize people with labels like "illegal alien" that we cease to see them as individual human beings with the right to seek out the best life for themselves and their families.
I'm all for Mexicans seeking a better life for themselves in Mexico. I'm not for Mexicans seeking a better life for themselves (at U.S. taxpayer expense) by illegally invading America. That's the difference.
It's far beyond time that we seal the border and return to Mexico it's citizens living here. If they are all such hard workers and good-hearted people, they can work hard at effecting change there. We must stop being Mexico's safety release valve as they dump their poor and uneducated here for us to deal with so they don't have to.
Mexico will never evolve nor lift it's massive corruption and opression of it's own people by us allowing Mexico to send them here.
Zeezil,
I can see your point, but having known a number of illegals here, who are great people, I'm not willing to categorically tell them that they have to return to Mexico.
In the meantime, might I recommend the essay "The Great Migration" in Hans Magnus Enzensberger's Civil Wars: From L.A. to Bosnia?
Karen:
Two books and a DVD to add to your library:
The Immigration Solution
by Heather Mac Donald, Victor Davis Hanson, Steven Malanga, and Myron Magnet
The New Case Against Immigration: Both Legal and Illegal
by Mark Krikorian
DVD: Border
by Chris Burgard
http://www.bordermovie.com/
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